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 The Jesus Debate
("What is the big deal about Jesus?")
Index

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It started with an August 2 report by the Presbyterian News Service about the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference, and more specifically with remarks by Rev. Dirk Ficca about Jesus.

Transcript of Rev. Dirk Ficca's presentation at the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference
Audio tape: Can be ordered from Pacific Audio Recording, phone: 714-441-0782. Cost: $9.50 including postage.

 Statement by GAC leaders Detterick and Pizor 8/25

Highland Park session writes letter to denominational leaders: cure delinquency 10/1

 Statement by GAC executive committee 10/25
in response to 10/1 statement by Highland Park Presbyterian Church and other concerns expressed

Montreat Session  lists GAC "delinquencies"
Not satisfied with GAC statement, asks for 6 specifics actions 10/30

Here is an index in reverse chronological order of letters and articles that have appeared on Presbyweb and elsewhere on the web:


From the Office of Theology and Worship:
"The Crucified One Is Lord" 12/9
Recent events within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) have highlighted one of the most important theological questions facing North American Christians today: How shall we confess Jesus Christ in a religiously plural society?

Detterick says Peacemaking speaker was 'out of bounds'
John Detterick, executive director of the General Assembly Council, told a gathering sponsored by the Presbyterian Coalition Oct. 31 that he believes Rev. Dirk Ficca's "What's the big deal about Jesus?" speech at the Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference "conflicts with a basic tenet of the church's faith" and was "out of bounds."  10/31

Montreat Session  lists GAC "delinquencies"
Asks for 6 specifics action 10/30
The Session of Montreat Presbyterian Church has sent a document to denominational leaders concerning what it believes to be delinquencies of the General Assembly Council concerning the presentation of Rev. Dirk Ficca at the the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking conference.
Earlier the session of Highland Park Presbyterian Church in Dallas, TX had also sent a letter asking the GAC to "cure delinquencies", but the session of the Montreat Presbyterian Church was not satisfied with the answer which was posted last week, saying that it fails to address the real delinquencies and cure the Christological issues raised..."

Rev. Jim Henkel responds to GAC statement 10/30
 "By choosing to reaffirm this false teaching, the Executive Committee of the General Assembly Council is stretching the boundary of mere delinquency to the point that they are in grave danger of crossing over into an outright dereliction of duty."

Rev. Cody Watson 10/30
Watson about Rev. Ficca's presentation and ministry to people of other religions.

Presbyterian Layman: 10/26
Council doesn't reprimand speaker or PCUSA group
"The executive committee of the General Assembly Council has issued a letter that affirms the historic Presbyterian theology that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior for the world. But the council found no reason to do anything in response to a Peacemaking Conference speaker who said Jesus is but one of many valid paths to the Father..."

Response to 10/25 GAC statement
by Rev. Winfield Casey Jones  10/26
"...The Council’s statement began well. Perhaps its high point was the affirmation of John 14:6 where Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." Unfortunately the statement went on to raise as many questions as it answered. Regrettably, the statement did not stick with the clarity of John 14:6 but moved on to a more vague and ambiguous theology of salvation, clearly influenced by the relativism of our culture.."

Rev. Philip Graber on GAC statement 10/26
"... It is troubling that the Committee has then affirmed contradictory views as equally appropriate for an officer of the church to hold."

Witherspoon Society dismisses Highland Park statement
Witherspoon's Eugene TeSelle, writing on PresbyNet, also accused Robert H. Bullock Jr., editor of The Presbyterian Outlook, of playing "his usual cowardly game of jumping in front of any conservative parade that comes along" for a recent editorial about Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of all the world.     10/14

Outlook Editorial
Jesus Christ: An Apology
By Robert H. Bullock Jr. 10/10
"...The urgent question before the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) today is whether to defend the historic Christian faith in Jesus Christ or apologize to the world that Christians ever believed that he was the real and only Lord and Savior of the world..."

Highland Park session writes letter to denominational leaders: cure delinquency 10/1
"...requesting that the General Assembly Council cure a delinquency for failing to respond to the issues raised by the Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference..."

Rev. Jim Henkel    9/28
Very disappointed that GAC has ignored "A Resolution Regarding the ‘Particularist-Pluralistic Dynamic'" which was submitted by his Northway Session, and offers a new resource: "An Outline for Small Group Prayer", free for the asking.

Presbyterian leaders back off statement conflicting with confessional standards 09/26
Peter Pizor, chairman of the General Assembly Council, and John Detterick, the council's executive director, have backed off a joint statement they made in response to a controversial keynote address to the denomination's 2000 Peacemaking Conference. 
Pizor acknowledged to the General Assembly Council that their statement was amiss.

Earl C. Apel   9/11
About Camilla Warrick's letter: " I don't see how you can get more Presbyterian and truly rooted in our Reformed traditions than that!"

Jim Hazlett 9/11
Hazlett writes about God's initiative of grace and our response.

Dr. George Hunsinger 9/9
Hunsinger has submitted one last set of comments:
on biblical interpretation; on whether we are saved by faith; and on whether hope for the salvation of the non-Christian is speculative.

Session rebukes General Assembly Council
and calls for season of fasting 9/8
"...We... rebuke the offices and officers of our General Assembly Council for leading the way into rebellion against God through the repudiation of Jesus Christ as God's one and only provision for our salvation; and not ours alone, but also that of the whole world..."

Elder Reginald Gates 9/8
"...the keynote speaker at a national conference sponsored by the PCUSA presenting a doctrine of salvation that is outside the wide limits of Christianity..." and the denominational leaders defend it. Should we take part in the Peacemaking Offering?

Rev. Winfield Casey Jones  9/7
Response to Dr. George Hunsinger about salvation by faith in Christ alone. "...We know that Jesus Christ promises that whoever comes to him, he will in no wise cast out... The alternative speculation, that God will save others too, while I cannot disprove it and have no desire to, is not really supported by the Bible and is quite possibly if not quite probably, false. As a pastor, I would rather hold out to people sure truth, rather than what has a high probability or even a possibility of turning out to be false hope..."

Rev. Ron Scates 9/7   
 Response to Camilla Warrick

Dr. George Hunsinger  9/6
Hunsinger answers questions from Rev. Winfield "Casey" Jones about salvation through faith in Christ alone.

Rev. George T. Hobson  9/6
About Camilla Warrick's letter: "I never thought I'd see the day when a Presbyterian would associate resurrection, reincarnation, and the recycling of road kill..."

Robert R. von Oeyen, Jr.   9/6
An  attempt to bring together some strands in this ongoing 'Jesus Debate.'

Rev. Albert Rhodes Stuart 9/6
"I saw the humor and the warning of [Camilla Warrick's] first post as pastoral challenge and corrective, but  this second posting, has left me gasping on the floor."

Letters to the Presbyterian Layman 9/5
At this web address of the Layman letters might be published at a later date that have nothing to do with this debate, but as of today, most do.

Rev. Winfield "Casey" Jones  9/5
Jones reflects on the term "generous orthodoxy" used in a note from Dr. George Hunsinger, and on the salvation of non-Christians.

Camilla Warrick  9/5
* Warrick writes what she believes about the Second Coming of Christ, in answer to Rev. Ron Scates' question. "...Do you not see that the God of the Second Coming blasphemes the God of the First Coming?"

Presbyterians Do Mission in Partnership  9/5
* Although it is not the main focus, the statement Presbyterians Do Mission in Partnership has a bearing on the discussion about evangelism among people of other religions. "As Christians, we understand "Mission" to be God's work - centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and made real through the active and leading power of the Holy Spirit - for the world God loves."

Dr. George Hunsinger 9/2
"Since the term “exclusivist” has entered into the current debate about Jesus and salvation ... along with terms like “inclusivist” and “pluralist,” I would like to submit Lesslie Newbigin’s careful distinctions."

Rev. Dean C. Waldt  9/1
In response to yesterday's "insulting and misleading" submissions by Prof. Gene TeSelle and Rev. Doug King: "...those who adhere to twenty centuries of doctrinal orthodoxy are not the "wrathful Right". They are the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ."

Deborah Milam Berkley 9/1
"It is much harder to stand by your faith, to love those of other faiths, and yet to be ready to share with them Christ's good news of real life, of salvation from death. It's uncomfortable to do that; it's frowned on in today's society. But it is much more loving."

Dr. James O. Pitts, III 9/1
Writing about yesterday's contributions to this discussion by Witherspooners Prof. Gene TeSelle and Rev. Doug King: "I used to think that the "Witherspooners" were a creative, visionary, and fair minded group..."

Rev. Ron Scates 8/31
Rev. Scates has a question for Camilla Warrick who wrote here earlier.

Rev. Doug King  8/30
The editor of the Witherspoon Society web site has written what he calls "A slightly opinionated report"

Professor Gene TeSelle 8/30
The president of the Witherspoon Society tries to help answer the question, "What Do the Confessions Say About Salvation Through Christ?"

Elder Van Cochran 8/30
"Irreconcilable doctrines of the inspiration of Scripture are at the core of virtually every conflict in the PCUSA, including the present conflict over Rev. Ficca’s remarks..."

Elder Gary Houseman 8/30
* "Well done, young Mr. Waggoner"

Dr. George Hunsinger 8/29
 "The letter by Messrs. Detterick and Pizor is perplexing... As a church we need more help with this question than the letter provides."

Rev. Lance F. Ziegler  8/29
"...Rev. Ficca challenges us to make a fundamental shift in how the church thinks about itself and discipleship. It is unfortunate that with this shift he would have us accept heresy."

Elder Alan Belch  8/29
"Now that we have read the complete transcript of Rev. Ficca's message, it is time to extinguish the torches..."

Rev. Jim Henkel  8/29
Ficca " is in direct violation of article four of 'Presbyterian Principles for Interfaith Dialogue:' '4) In our pluralistic world, we confess that Jesus is the truth and the way; through him God gives life. Jesus does not point to truth but is the truth, in his person.'"

Rev. Paul Leggett   8/28
"This recent letter from two leaders of the General Assembly Council is both astonishing and disturbing..."

Rev. Hal Porter    8/28
"...what a wonderful statement [Rev. Ficca]  made! I agree with him fully. There is life in the Presbyterian Church yet!..."

Roy Waggoner, a high school junior  8/28
"...the responses by Peacemaking Conference and GAC officials lack substance. When you read Ficca's speech, their responses that declare his statements perfectly good and Reformed fail to hold water..."

Dan Reuter, advocate of Butler-Beaver overture  8/28
"Rev. Ficca ignores the fact that those who regard Jesus as merely revealing something about God, and not executing any change in our relation to God, have always been considered heretical by the vast body of the church...."

Presbyterian Forum:  8/26
Who speaks for the Presbyterian Church (USA)?
"The argument that Ficca spoke only for himself does not fly. The institution gave him a platform with the mantle of leadership. He was a keynote speaker and a workshop leader. If he had slandered someone, the church could be held liable for damages. That’s not a close call. Ultimately, no matter what he said, he spoke as an agent or representative of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)."

Dr. Brant D. Baker   8/26
"Pizor and Detterick fail to address the comments that are obviously the cause for concern..." 

Robert R. von Oeyen, Jr.  8/26
"...this sad, late, wrongheaded statement [of GAC leaders]... will compound the credibility problem many of our denominational leaders have..."

Camilla Warrick   8/26
predicts what will happen on the first seven days of the second coming of his Lordship -- Jesus the Christ.

GAC leaders Detterick and Pizor have no problems with Rev. Dirk Ficca's remarks about Jesus at the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference which some have called heresy 8/25

Elder Gordon E. Fish, Ph.D. 8/22
Fish  finds Rev. Hal Porter's assertion that the statement: "I commit my life to God as revealed through the life and ministry of Jesus" is sufficient for becoming a member in the PC(USA) problematic, and on more levels than what he calls "its theological inadequacy as a confessional statement of the Lordship of Jesus Christ." 

Presbyterian Forum Update -  the Jesus Debate  8/22
Bob Davis  argues that the PC(USA) has begun to function more as a university than a church. Contrary to a university, a church has a message. If the PC(USA)  is a church, it must have a message.

Elder John McNeese   8/21
"...The only description of judgment day from Jesus mentions nothing about getting the dogma right..."

Rev. Jim Henkel     8/21
"... it is difficult to discern which is more disturbing: that Dr. Dirk Ficca was given voice to air his defamation of the sole, saving power of our Lord Jesus Christ at a major denominational event; or that staff members in our national offices opine that Ficca's views are 'thoroughly Presbyterian and Reformed'..."

Dr. George Hunsinger, Princeton Theological Seminary   8/19
Hunsinger finds terminological confusion, hermeneutical distortion and false reasoning in Rev. Dirk Ficca's remarks about Jesus at the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference.

Rev. Jim Hazlett     8/19
"...Any church which thinks it can entertain both this [current secular] culture and the culture of Biblical Confessions under its ecclesiastical umbrella is in great denial and faces a major meltdown..."

Rev. Winfield Casey Jones - former candidate for GA Stated Clerk  8/19
"...The theology apparently represented in Dr. Ficca’s remarks, although appearing to be tolerant, loving, and inclusive, contradicts scripture and our confessions. It is not the theology of a growing, evangelistic, biblical church. It is also a theology which is less attractive to the racial ethnic people the PCUSA says it wants to reach..."

Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone  8/19
John Adams of The Presbyterian Layman Online gives a summary of the debate thus far.

Rev. Raymond M. Tear   8/18
"This is looking more and more like a case of "it depends what your definition of 'is' is"..."

Glenda L. Smith   8/18
 "Rebuttal to some of the radical, unorthodox and otherwise non-Christian views of Dr. Ficca..."

Winston Smith   8/18
 "...most of the discussion of this incident misses the point."

PNS report: 8/17    
Peacemaking conference address stirs theological controversy
Two national staff members who helped plan the Peacemaking Conference rose to Ficca’s defense, hinting that PNS reporting may have been partially responsible for the controversy. The Rev. Victor Makari calls Ficca's credo " thoroughly Presbyterian and Reformed."

Rev. Dirk Ficca about: 8/17
Instrumental and revelatory views of Jesus
Transcript of parts of Ficca's address at the Peacemaking Conference
Presbyweb has obtained a tape of Ficca's address and has transcribed parts that are at the center of the controversy.

Rev. Jim Henkel   8/17
"...The 'sincere faith' and 'calling' of Ministers of the Word and Sacrament, Elders, and Deacons who deny that Jesus Christ is the Good News which we have to share with the world should be seriously questioned."

Alan Belch   8/16
Response to Dan Reuter's letter

Dr. James O. Pitts III   8/16
"The need I see for continuing this discussion is that in our present cultural context the ideas of Jesus Christ as the unique Son, as sole Savior of mankind, as singular manifestation of the Trinity within time for human beings, and many similar expressions are becoming obscured both within our society and within PCUSA."

Rev. Dean C. Waldt   8/15
"...We cannot blame Dr. Ficca for expressing his beliefs when we have done little to stand for the true gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Now is the time to stand up, not to punish Dr. Ficca, but to be obedient to Christ..."

Elder Dan Reuter   8/15
"The truly disturbing thing about Elder Belch's letter, as about Dr. Ficca's speech, is that both of these men have said that they "sincerely receive and adopt the essential tenets of the Reformed faith as expressed in the confessions of our church as authentic and reliable expositions of what Scripture leads us to believe and do..."

Elder Alan Belch  -  8/14
He argues that, according to a report from Research Services,  only 46% of Presbyterians believe that only followers of Jesus are saved, and that Rev. Ficca's statements are not heretical.

Rev. Albert Rhodes Stuart -  8/14
-- "I dare say that "God alone is the author and source of salvation which we experience through Jesus Christ"  is a statement with which nearly any Unitarian-Universalist could agree. Not only that, there are many Bahais, Muslims, and some Hindus who could equally subscribe such a statement."

Prof. Dr. George Hunsinger -  8/12
Dr.`Hunsinger finds the recent statement by the Presbyterian Peacemaking Program, released in response to many calls they have received, "far from adequate as a description of the meaning of salvation in the Reformed tradition according to the constitutional documents of the PC(USA)". He also uses the words "ambiguous at best" and "dubious".

The Rev. Dr. Paul Leggett  -  8/12
Rev. Leggett believes that Rev. Porter's remarks in his letter posted here yesterday "show an incredible lack of awareness of basic church doctrine," and  he sees Porter's references to the Book of Order as "a sort of "proof-texting" of the worst sort." He also believes that "Our denominational leadership needs to speak clearly on this issue and they need to speak now."

Sermon by Rev. Dirk Ficca -  8/12
The transcript of his address at the Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference has not been made available yet, but there is a transcript of a sermon of him on the web about a similar subject.

Ed Piper  -  8/12
Thanks God for the YADs

Prof. Mark Achtemeier -  8/11
".. But if the account of Rev. Ficca's teaching given by PNS is accurate... the truly alarming aspect of the report is its assertion that the Good News of the Gospel is separable from Jesus, being a message about God that Jesus simply passed along..." 8/11

Rev. Hal Porter:  -  8/11
"...Let us remember, as far as professions of faith go in the Presbyterian Church, we have no other required dogma as to the explicit meaning of Jesus other than "the congregation shall welcome all persons who respond in trust and obedience to God's grace in Jesus Christ and desire to become part of the membership and ministry of his Church."  8/11

Youth Respond -  8/11
On YAD site The Rock

Peacemaking conference leaders issue statement in response to reaction to news reports -  8/11
*   "...At no time did the conference or its speakers present the Christian faith as an option among many..."

Bob Davis, Executive Director of the Presbyterian Forum: 8/10
"The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is/was under no obligation to provide a venue and promotion for the Rev. Ficca to express that opinion; particularly when doing so would suggest that the church is turning its back on its constitutional calling..."

Rev. Walter Taylor 8/10
"The real issue is what is the relationship of Jesus Christ to the truth. Is he just one manifestation of it among many others...?"

Dr. James O. Pitts III  8/10
Tentatively I am believing that the trigger to this event - the report of Dr. Ficca's remarks at the Peacemaking Conference - may qualify as an event worthy of Augustine's description as "felix culpa" - "o fortunate fault, sin".

Elder Frank Baldwin:   8/9
"Are we now at the level of needing "thought police" to correct every error?"

Elder John McNeese:   8/9
"Using terms of heresy and apostasy denigrate us as Presbyterians and Christians."


Elder Charles L. Trotter    8/8

"If all faithful people leave the PCUSA, it is, indeed, doomed. I sincerely hope that Mr. Houseman and others like him will stay and fight the good fight. The liberal elements are slowly losing ground, and we must be ready to reclaim it."

Rev. Scott Fischer  8/7
There are many faithful Christians in the PC(USA).

Rev. Albert Rhodes Stuart   8/7
"Rev. Dirk Ficca's comments are at best sub-Christian and at worst (and probably they are worst-case) anti-Christian."

Elder Gary Houseman 8/5
"Too embarrassed to be called Presbyterian"

Dr. James O. Pitts III  8/4
"The statement (as reported) espouses a fundamental distortion of the common Christian faith that stabs that faith in the heart (if accepted as printed). In classical terms, it is an heretical assertion."

News report by John Filiatreau (Presbyterian News Service)  8/2
This general report of the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference, and more specifically what he wrote about Rev. Dirk Ficca's presentation, set off this debate.

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